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Dec 23, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19
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#1 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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PvE Warrior Template (Nightfall Edition)
As-promised. Same drill as the old guide. Don't bother taking about originality, 'skill preference' and other subjective/useless bull****. On the other hand, if you have hard facts that contradict what I say here, please let me know and I will edit as necessary.
Enjoy. Basic PvE warrior template: IAS skill elite attack skill attack skill attack skill attack skill utility/attack skill utility/attack skill res 16 in weapon attribute 9+ str/tac for shield (obviously this is more flexible if you're using a hammer) remaining attributes based on skillbar The overall rule for a PvE warrior build: do whatever it takes to maximize your damage. IAS skills (pick one): --------------------- Flail - prior to Nightfall, PvE warriors had a number of choices for IAS skills. With the introduction of Flail, however, PvE warriors no longer have any reason to consider anything else. Take Flail and love it. Elite Attack Skill (pick one): --------------------------- [Swords]: Hundred Blades: worthless for high-level PvE, as it doesn't do enough damage. If you have a build (or a team build) that can take advantage of the large number of hits this skill can put out, you might consider taking this. Otherwise it's just a novelty for low-level missions. Quivering Blade: Spammable elite attack. Works best when used alone or with one or two other low-adren skills. Inferior to Dragon Slash when used with a bar full of high-adrenaline attacks. Dazed condition can be useful when coupled with Plague Touch. Dragon Slash: Sword elite of choice, and one of the best elite attacks for high, sustained DPS. Does not play well with Final Thrust. Bring high-cost adrenalin attacks such as Galrath/Silverwing Slash to take full advantage of the massive adrenalin gained from this skill. Crippling Slash: Waste of your elite slot in PvE. The 4a cripple simply doesn't matter. [Axe]: Cleave: Read Quivering Blade, without the part about dazed. Better DPS than Eviscerate. Eviscerate: PvP elite of choice, but the recent nerf makes it less ideal for PvE. Take Cleave or Triple Chop instead. Triple Chop: Elite cyclone axe. Like cyclone axe, excellent for adrenaline gain in areas with high monster density, except it does damage like executioner's strike (ie. high). Pretty much requires a zealous weapon when used in conjunction with other energy-based skills. Poor choice when facing mostly small groups. Whirling Axe: Ultraspam version of Cleave. There isn't a lot of blocking in PvE so you can usually use this with impunity. However, as with other low-adren spam skills, it doesn't work well with other adren skills, so I tend to avoid taking this skill. Decapitate: Eviscerate's big brother. If using this skill, you must obtain a +15%/-5e weapon to hide some energy. Good spiking skill, but probably a bad choice for PvE. [Hammer]: Backbreaker: Adren cost is extremely high, and as a result is not often used. Devastating Hammer: 7a knockdown that adds weakness, which sets up for other hammer attacks like Auspicious Blow (gain energy), Fierce Blow (extra damage), and Heavy Blow (knockdown). Hammer skill of choice for most PvP hammer warriors ... PvE is hard to say, because very few PvE warriors use hammers. Earth Shaker: aoe knockdown. If you take this, consider taking Crude Swing as well. can be interesting when combined with other aoe skills like Aftershock. Otherwise it's a decent tool for keeping enemy groups on their backs. Enraged Smash: Spammable elite attack. Conditional damage with no knockdown. Works best when put on a bar with other low-cost adrenalin skills that you don't intend to use often. Can result in insane, sustainable DPS with the right skill bar (try for skills with 4a costs or lower). Forceful Blow: Extra damage with weakness, which like Devastating can be followed up by other hammer attacks. Relatively low-cost, but has no knockdown, and knocks you down when evaded. Just stay away from rangers. Magehunter Smash: Without any damage bonus, I can't justify the use of this skill in PvE - with one important exception: boss casters, particularly monks and elementalists. With the stonefist mod and 33% IAS, you could potentially keep an enchanted caster boss on their back indefinitely, making the fight trivial. Before slotting this elite, however, consider other methods of caster shutdown, such as a ranger with Concussion Shot or Broadhead Arrow. [No Attribute]: Skull Crack: If you can't get any other source of dazed on your team, Skull Crack can be used with good effect against caster bosses to make them much, much easier to kill. Almost completely useless otherwise, and overall a poor skill regardless. Think hard before slotting this as your elite. Charging Strike: This skill is weak in PvE. The 33% faster movement is unnecessary, and because this skill is linked to strength, which is generally lower than your weapon attribute, the damage bonus will be sub-par. Headbutt: Extremely high energy cost and lengthy recharge make this a practically useless elite. Like Quivering Blade, you can take advantage of the dazed effect with Plague Touch. Magehunter Strike: This would be an amazing skill if the damage bonus was higher. It has a number of excellent properties: low recharge, 1/2s attack speed, and no block/evade if enchanted. There are, however, two serious problems: first, the damage bonus is so low (and linked to strength) that it's essentially identical to a normal attack damage-wise. Second, warriors don't have the energy to spam this attack at a rate that would make it really useful. Attack Skills (pick 3~5): -------------------------- Not going to say much about these, because there are simply too many skills and most of them don't require comment anyway. I'm mostly just going to post a list of good choices, with maybe a note if I feel one is necessary. [Sword]: - Galrath/Silverwing Slash - sword bread&butter damage skill - Sun and Moon Slash - low damage, but gets around block/evade and is worth 2a instead of the normal 1. - Standing Slash - basically 6a Galrath, since you're bringing an IAS stance (right?) - Sever Artery - bleeding - Gash - deep wound, require bleed (ie. bring sever or barbarous if you bring this) - Final Thrust - Savage Slash - 0.5s interrupt, but it has high recharge and energy cost. - Barbarous Slice - use stance after barbarous hits. - Steelfang Slash - interesting when coupled with Shock or Bull's Strike. If using Dragon Slash, you're better off with Galrath, Silverwing, and Sun and Moon. If you're uncomfortable without a deep wound on your bar, take Sever/Barbarous and Gash, although keep in mind that Sever doesn't take full advantage of the adrenalin from Dragon Slash. Steelfang Slash looks better on paper than it is in practice, simply because sword warriors typically don't have a reliable KD. Final Thrust and Dragon Slash should not be on the same bar. [Axe]: - Executioner's Strike - axe bread&butter damage skill - Penetrating Blow/Chop - useful if your strength is low, otherwise avoid - Cyclone Axe - useful for gaining adrenalin, relatively spammable. Bring a zealous weapon. - Dismember - deep wound - Disrupting Chop - adrenal-based interrupt + disable for 20s - Agonizing Chop - worse than disrupting chop - Critical Chop - excellent spiking tool due to damage bonus and 1/2s swing time. If you're not bringing Eviscerate or Decapitate you can put in Dismember if you really want a deep wound. Disrupting Chop is an excellent interrupt. It requires a bit of experience to use, since you need to use it pre-emptively against faster skills like Orison (meaning you have to predict the next spell), but it's the only warrior interrupt that comes with a disabling effect. Agonizing Chop is a conditional interrupt with a damage bonus, no disabling effect, and normal swing time, and therefore is inferior to both Disrupting Chop and Distracting Blow. Critical Chop is an interesting skill that is mostly useful in PvP as a spike finisher, although being an energy skill with 10s recharge, its use is somewhat limited in PvE. [Hammer]: - Auspicious Blow - energy management, high adrenalin cost, requires weakness - Counter Blow - 4a conditional KD - Crushing Blow - take it - Fierce Blow - extra damage against weakness - Heavy Blow - knockdown against weakness - Irresistable Blow - thump thump thump. unconditional damage with a "block" punisher. - Renewing Smash - I only mention it as a possible combo with Tiger Stance - Staggering Blow - applies weakness, if you're not bringing Devastating or Forceful - Yeti Smash - aoe damage, the gimped hammer version of cyclone axe - Crude Swing - usually a bad skill. however, if you have some way to avoid being hit, this can be decent. - Mokele Smash - 20s recharge kills it. - Overbearing Smash - another way to capitalize on weakness. Irresistable Blow was nerfed in the 20060914 update, but it's still a decent block punisher. A knockdown skill and Crushing Blow are must-have for most hammer builds. If using Enraged Smash, it's not necessary to bring any other hammer skills. Devastating -> Crushing -> Fierce -> Heavy is ridiculous damage and includes two knockdowns. Neither of the new Nightfall hammer attacks are impressive enough to replace old hammer builds. [Strength]: - Counterattack - emgt for strength warriors, useless otherwise. You usually should not bring any strength-based attacks in PvE. A number of them are very useful in PvP, such as Bull's Strike, Protector's Strike, etc. Bring Wild Blow for special cases where you absolutely must take down a stance (ie. a special boss stance like Battle Scars). Using Power Attack will usually get you laughed at by anyone who knows what they're doing. [Tactics]: - Soldier's Strike - non-elite version of magehunter strike if you are under a shout/chant. [No Attribute]: - Distracting Blow - 1/2s aoe interrupt, low energy cost, reasonable recharge. The gimped warrior version of Cry of Frustration. Although it does no damage, you do gain adrenalin for each enemy you interrupt. Take this skill whenever you can. Utility Skills (pick 0~2) -------------------------- There are too many to list individually. Basically, these can be defensive skills, self-heal, adrenal boosts, a speed boost, or anything that combos well with the rest of your build or your team. Most people take "Watch Yourself!" and Healing Signet everywhere - I don't, because I think it's unnecessary with a good monk. My advice is to use your own judgement - if you can get good monks, leave the defense at home, otherwise bring some insurance. The following is a list of notable utility skills, sorted by function: Defense: - "Watch Yourself!" - fan favorite, although much less useful after the recent nerf. - "Shields Up!" - hard counter to any kind of projectile offense, most useful with two copies in the team, since the duration under normal levels of tactics is ~half the recharge. - Dolyak Signet - enormous movement penalty makes this skill unattractive. Excellent in theory, provided aggro management is perfect. - misc. blocking stances - these tend to have severe limitations, such as extremely long recharge times, end when you use a skill, etc. Bonetti's Defense is extremely popular as a combination blocking stance + energy engine, but is actually a useless skill for most warriors since they should always be spamming attack skills. Adrenaline: - "To the Limit!" - excellent way to start a fight - "For Great Justice!" - sustained adrenaline bonus, stacks with other adrenaline boosters - Enraging Charge - similar to TtL in usage, except that the amount of adrenaline gained is not dependant on the number of enemies within earshot. - Infuriating Heat - This is an elite ranger spirit, but I'm mentioning it here because of how ridiculously good it is for warriors. Don't bring this yourself, convince a ranger friend/hero to bring it for you. Self-Heals: - Healing Signet - Before Nightfall, this was the self-heal of choice. Still useful, but take a look at ... - Lion's Comfort - excellent spike heal. 5a cost makes it less spammable than Healsig, but it has no armor penalty and activates in half the time. Secondary Profession? -------------------------- The perceptive reader has probably already noticed that I make no mention of secondary profession skills. This is because warriors rarely have use for their secondary in general PvE, wammos notwithstanding. However, there are some common utility skills like Plague Touch (N), Mending Touch (Mo) and Rebirth (Mo) that consistently find their way onto PvE warrior skillbars. Mending Touch in particular is excellent in areas that feature large amounts of blind/weakness/cripple. Although Dervishes and Paragons offer some interesting skill choices that seem to complement warriors, those skills (such as "Go for the Eyes!") are best carried on P/* and D/* primaries. Examples: -------------------------- These are the builds listed in the previous guide, modified with NF skills: PvE Sword: Flail Dragon Slash (E) Silverwing Slash Galrath Slash Distracting Blow/"For Great Justice!" Enraging Charge "To the limit!" Res Sig attributes: 16/11/9 (swd/str/tac) *notes: Enraging Charge + "To the Limit!" will get you 8 adrenaline provided there are at least 4 enemies within earshot. This means you can start with Silverwing -> Galrath -> strike -> strike -> Dragon Slash. Those that prefer more adrenaline can substitute "For Great Justice!" for Distracting Blow, but I personally prefer the interrupt capability. PvE Axe: Flail Triple Chop (E) Executioner's Chop Furious Axe Dismember Disrupting Chop Distracting Blow Res Sig attributes: 16/13 (axe/str) *notes: Axe is traditionally weaker in PvE due to lower DPS. This build requires a zealous weapon for maximum effectiveness. PvE Hammer: Flail Enraged Smash (E) Counter Blow Rush "Watch Yourself!" "Fear Me!" Enraging Charge Res Sig attributes: 16/4/13 (hmr/tac/str) *notes: Enraging Charge at 13str gets you 4a, so you are good to go immediately. Spam Enraged Smash under Flail. Avoid using the other adrenaline skills while in combat, although everything except "Fear Me!" is useful at some point. This is one of the better builds to run on warrior heroes, since it is a one-button spam build - just disable counter, rush, Watch, and fear. The build achieves well over 100 DPS under Infuriating Heat. Last edited by Rera; Dec 27, 2006 at 03:13 PM // 15:13.. |
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Dec 23, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56
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#2 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: RA, reporting you
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Oh, look
Quote:
You might want to explain how to use Final Thrust to do damage instead of standing around, and skills that go well with that. Or just say that it's a bad skill. |
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Dec 23, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55
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#3 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South Africa
Profession: N/
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Nice, informative guide.
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Dec 23, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26
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#4 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Quote:
I have nothing further to say on Final Thrust because Dragon Slash is the best sword elite in the game. The fact that Final Thrust does not work well with Dragon Slash is damning enough to not have to say anything more about it. |
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Dec 23, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25
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#5 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Aug 2005
Guild: Natis Ignigena
Profession: Me/
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Great work Rera.
Probably just a slip, but no mention of Counter Blow in the hammer attacks. Everything attacks in Pve, so I see this as being as essential as Crushing Blow in any hammer warrior's PvE build. A reliable, 4a KD is not to be sniffed at. |
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Dec 24, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33
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#6 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Mar 2006
Guild: Order of Dii [Dii]
Profession: W/E
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I find Eviscerate, Executioner's Strike, and Critical Chop to be very good axe attack skills for pve. With an IAS stance, you can charge up an Evisc/Exe combo in less than 7 sec for many spikes.
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Dec 24, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55
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#7 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Well, really... that should be like a staple for W builds.
Just a tweak (Pve) would be : IAS skill <== replace with flail (unless you have a synergy with another skill) elite attack skill attack skill attack skill attack skill utility/attack skill <== replace for utility only utility/attack skill <== replace for utility only res 3 attack skills + 1 elite attacks seems enought, freeing those two last slots for utility only. Distracting blow is one of my favorite skills, it's so gorgeous i miss it when it's not on a skillbar. Plague touch is also very good if you can't rely on your monks to take conditions off yourself (need i say blind ?). Rera, how about you would list some choices on utility skills from secondary professions ? that could make the template even more interesting 
Last edited by Dazzen; Dec 24, 2006 at 12:59 AM // 00:59.. |
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Dec 24, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15
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#8 | |||
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Did I hear 7 heroes?
Join Date: May 2005
Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)
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Dec 24, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26
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#9 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Quote:
@Drazzen: A template requires both standard format (thus "IAS skill" instead of "Flail"), and flexibility (thus "Utility/Attack skill"). The reason I don't mention more utility skills from other classes is that, aside from Rebirth and Mending Touch, there is rarely any justification for running that utility on a warrior rather than a mid/backliner. Warrior skillbars can actually get pretty cramped without using any secondary skills. See my example sword and hammer builds, for instance - what skills would you drop for secondary utility? |
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Dec 24, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07
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#10 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: RA, reporting you
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Quote:
I was just making a suggestion. Final Thrust does not work well with anything (almost). I just thought you might want to mention that, or list a few of the skills it does work with, and how to use it. If not, that's fine, too... Last edited by martialis; Dec 24, 2006 at 04:14 AM // 04:14.. |
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Dec 24, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28
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#11 | ||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Guild: Penguin Village
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
:edit: Unless you have 13+ strength, Enraging will only net you 3. Unless you have 11+ tactics, "To The Limit!" will only net you 4. You can have 11 tactics and 9 strength, which is what you might have been thinking, but that high of a score in tactics makes me cringe - especially if you're advocating not taking defensive skills. Not arguing with you at all on that point, btw. Enraging Charge doesn't go up to 4 adrenaline until you reach 13 strength, so "To The Limit!" is definitely less useful on a 13 strength build; it only gives 2 adrenaline strikes at 4 tactics. Quote:
Everything else looks great. Last edited by jesh; Dec 24, 2006 at 06:37 AM // 06:37.. |
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Dec 24, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17
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#12 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Feb 2006
Profession: W/
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^
Its 8 as you have to count the 1 point of adrenaline from your first strike. Good job on the guide. I agree with most of it, but not all. ~A Leprechaun~ |
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Dec 24, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10
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#13 | |||||
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Grindin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Profession: E/Mo
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Dec 24, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33
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#14 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Guild: Grenth's Rejects [GR]
Profession: R/Mo
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My builds look similar for PvE, but are still a little shoddy due to not being in Tyria or Cantha yet.:
Sword: W/R Counterattack, Sever Artery, Gash, Flail, Antidote Signet, Watch Yourself, Healing Signet, Sunspear/Res Signet. Axe: W/E Shock, Dismember, Executioner Strike, Cleave, Flail, Sprint, Healing Signet, Res/Sunspear Signet. Your guide was really helpful Rera, thanks for posting it again. Last edited by Jeff Highwind; Dec 24, 2006 at 08:36 AM // 08:36.. |
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Dec 24, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33
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#15 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Guild: Penguin Village
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
 I knew that. I tested Distracting Blow again tonight, and couldn't get it to give me more than 1 strike of adrenaline, regardless of my positioning. It gives adrenaline for no damage, but doesn't count the other targets it interrupts, as far as I can tell. Maybe if you sucessfully interrupt an adjacent target, you gain adrenaline for that foe as well? I'm too lazy to test that possibility. It looks like 1 strike, period to me. Last edited by jesh; Dec 24, 2006 at 11:37 AM // 11:37.. |
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Dec 24, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16
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#16 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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On Distracting Blow:
Quote:
As for Enraging Charge and TtL, we were both wrong. My original attribute distribution was 11 tactics, 9 strength, which puts TtL at 5 and Enraging at +3. Neither of us took into account the +1 from actually hitting. This means you can invert my attributes and run 11 strength, 9 tactics for a bit more AP and 1s longer charge duration. Again, the only real utility that warriors are going to take anywhere are blind/weakness removal, and Mending Touch is the best of the lot. There are highly conditional utility skills like "Shields Up!" you might take into some areas, but you're going to have to make your own judgments in those cases. I certainly don't have the time or inclination to list out every area where a specific buff might be useful. Nice catches people, thanks. I've made the necessary edits. EDIT: Almost forgot to address the Cyclone Axe point. The problem with Cyclone Axe is that it has almost no damage bonus, so against higher-level enemies it does pathetic damage. Its only use at that point is as an adrenaline engine, and it's only effective in that role if you're surrounded by enemies. If you wanted to include Cyclone Axe, I would actually take out one of the interrupts, rather than Furious Axe. Last edited by Rera; Dec 24, 2006 at 06:24 PM // 18:24.. |
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Dec 24, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37
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#17 | |
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Did I hear 7 heroes?
Join Date: May 2005
Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)
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Dec 24, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43
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#18 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK
Profession: W/
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[skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill]+[skill]Eviscerate[/skill]
gg? |
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Dec 24, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12
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#19 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Guild: Penguin Village
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
The way I see it, this is what makes an axe worth carrying in PvE, how easily you can wipe out mobs with Cyclone and Triple Chop. A sword can take down a single target faster, but not 3 or more at once like an axe can. This is mostly because Hundred Blades sucks. Cyclone Axe is also a better way to boost adrenaline for spamming Dismember. Trying to find a foe to fill the conditional bonus from Furious Axe doesn't compare. |
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Dec 24, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21
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#20 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: If it aint expensive, it aint worth buyin'.
Guild: Leading/Co-leading Bretheren Of Chaos [Dark]
Profession: W/Mo
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i read the entire guide, very, very, very useful for someone who doesnt play a warrior well, and needs some guidance, or for new players to the game. for those with experience, it becomes obvious that the guide comes from someone like themselves. i can tell its writtin not on conjecture, but experience, and quite frankly, i wouldn't have written it differently, with very few minor exceptions.
edit: my 1 point of contention is your mention of dragon slash as the dominating sword elite. for an adrenaline-heavy (NON-FT BAR) this is correct, though i think when comparing the handful of possible elites to use for a specific class of warrior, its important to consider the build. though you did mention its use with plague touch, i feel that quivering vs dragon come out head to head, depending on their use. i contend that your perceived dominance of dragon over quivering is due to a preference of an adrenal spiker. i'm not saying you're flat out wrong, or that quivering is better, because i use both to equally deadly effect, i just make mention that the designation of one elite over the other should be decided based upon the build one is using. if you want to run flail/dragon/galrath/silverwing/sun&moon/mending touch/etc then by all means, take dragon. overall it will do you more good for bringing down a focused target. if, on the other hand you prefer flail/quivering/final thrust/galrath/plague touch then you'd be more geared up to head into areas with heavy monk presence. the two builds accomplish the same thing, but with slight variations (and work VERY well together, i may add). i'm just one of those types that believes that (while some elites are CLEARLY better than others) there is generally no one "best" elite for an entire blanket class...only a "best" elite for a specific build. thats all i wanted to say and, again, good job on the guide. Last edited by Akhilleus; Dec 24, 2006 at 07:39 PM // 19:39.. |
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